VR Philips 2220

Ersatzteile und Reparaturtipps zum Fehler: Snow in the horizontal middle

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Philips VR 2220 --- Snow in the horizontal middle
Suche nach Philips 2220

    







BID = 1018633

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel
 

  


Geräteart : Geräteart auswählen
Defekt : Snow in the horizontal middle
Hersteller : Philips
Gerätetyp : VR 2220
Chassis : Video 2000
Messgeräte : Multimeter
______________________

Hi all!

Some months ago I managed to get from Wallapop (R) a VR 2120 / VR 2220 pair from Philips. This is a V2000 machine in two parts, designed to make the magnetoscope part portable for attaching it to a Videocamera. This was the one we had at home when I was a kid, and it died one day when a damaged tape got caught inside it, damaging the video heads. Well, that was what they told us. The machine would still "work", but a kind of diagonal, multicoloured moving stripes would superimpose over the screen. It never got serviced and was replaced by a VHS (the format war had already come to an end) and it was stored for some time until, about 15 years ago, when eBay was starting, I managed to buy a couple of videoheads. Without any further knowledge and without proper tools neither any service manuals, and of course without knowing about this forum, I dissassembled it and not only caused even more damage to the machine but I wasn't able to reassemble it again. Frustrated, it ended on the trash bin (the same final destiny that, years before, deserved the V2000 video camera my dad also owned, although still being functional).

Well, now to this machine. The owner said she didn't know nothing about the working state of it. It belonged to her father and had been stored for years in a garage. The 1st thing that happened when I turned it on was having a little explossion - that was the filtering capacitor at the beginning of the power supply, just behind the outlet. Waited for weeks until my order of replacements arrived home (I've learned to be patient and to be very careful in order to avoid further damaging thinks). After that I carefully observed it before putting a tape inside it. I thought I should attempt at least a head cleaning. With the tape lift open, looking at the head drum, I noticed what seemed black spots. Examining them further I came to the conclusion that it was corrossion. I thought there was no hope for this machine, but remembered of a very delicate polishing method with toothpaste. So I got the service manual after some googling and disassembled it. Appart from carefully cleaning the case (it was heavily dirty), I took off case and the lift. Spent many days polishing the drum with very care to avoid touching the head themselves, and afraid that too much polishing would "deform" the piece and suspecting that the tiny horizontal lines in the head were starting to vanish, I ended the job leaving a very shiny surface, with the corroded parts not being noticed anymore by touch and almost invisible to the eye. The corroded stains (which maybe made a 5% of the surface or more) felt very raw at touch and probably would have been acted as a sanding paper for the video tapes, permanently damaging them for sure, so I thought I had nothing to lose...

The more I inspected the machine, the more damage I found. After carefully cleaning the drum and the heads themselves and every other head, sensors, rollers and the threading mechanism with alcohol, I noticed that two little rubber pieces that looked like tiny "brakes" for the winding motors were heavily eroded, like shoes that have lost their soles, probably causing the chilling, high-pitched sound I was hearing when stopping play or re(wind) (without any tape yet). I spent weeks figuring out how to replace those little pieces. Started making molds with plaster from the original pieces, but they ended being destroyed everytime I tried to take off the original one from there. Started getting semi-"decent" moulds using hot glue around it, and finally ended getting some two-component silicon, which is the professional product for making casts of figures and/or pieces. Also there was the problem of "sculping" over the damaged piece to restored the eroded area before making casts. It was so difficult as no clay/epoxy or whatever other material I had available would stick to that rubber, but finally I overcame it. Got some nice, hand made little "brakes" made from latex, which looked of a similar consistency like the original ones, and also strong enough.

Another broken part were 4 little cables that connected, to provide grounding, the tape lift mechanism to the metal casing. Only on of them was still in its place, with the other ones having been disconnected or even completely missing.

Also I greased almost every part as stated in the service manual, except for the ones that weren't accessible without disassembling problematic / very delicate parts. Avoided WD-40 as I've read it attracts moisture, and used white lithium grease in place of the "Molykote DX" and some "medium" diesel car oil instead of the "heavy-medium" Mobil DTE oil they stated on the manual (I hope my replacements are good enough...).

This took me months to accomplish, but finally a couple of days ago I made the 1st playing attempt. I tried with a tape that came with the maching (thus not knowing the state of the tape). No tape jams happened, and it worked, but with noticeable snow / those white "sparks" or dots that become enlarged horizontally, mainly in the horizontal middle of the screen, progressively disappearing until the top and bottom of the screen, almost totally free from sparkles. Different areas of the screen happened to display more or less sparkles, being consistent between successive playing attempts. Another think I suspected was happening was something damage being done to the tape. Like if some pinching happened over a 1 cm area or so of the tape after unthreading it. Although I'm 99% sure, I couldn't assure it that they weren't there already. And also that didn't happen when playing a know tape, one I have been owning for years with some cartoons on it (and that looked with heavier snow and drops than the previous tape, probably to being in very bad shape).

So for, I have 2 issues with this machine: 1st of all, determine if the tape pinching is really happening (I'm afraid of trying with other tapes as I don't want to damage them) and, if that's the case, how to overcome this. I think I remember reading that uses to happen when the pinch rollers have been damaged (mine seem to look fine but also remember reading that a very little, unnoticeable deformity could cause it). Yesterday I got a reply from a message on a Youtube video where someone serviced this same machine and he said he got brand new pinch replacements, but in its answer he said that they don'te exist anymore. Also I'm afraid that some microscopic alteration on the head drum surface shape due to the polishing process could be causing the problem, thus being unrecoverable. Or even that tinning the little stripes, which I remember reading were done to improve adherence of the tape to the heads, is causing some loosening and causing the snow and/or the pinching...

The 2nd one is that in the same video (https://youtu.be/5TByobEzl-4) as well as in some Dutch forum post for the same machine (http://mfbfreaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3021) they take off the "bridge" over the drum, and clean both the tiny contacts and the metal plate / tracks from the "bridge" itself and that seems to improve image quality (I remember doing it and noticing improvement in the Grunding machines I atempted to service some years ago). But I'm afraid of permanently damaging the machine / misaligning the DTF system or the video heads if I do that. What do you think? They also seem to do always the same operation in the bottom of the machine, where there is another plate with metal tracks belonging to the bottom of the drum mechanism. It seems both operations would improve playing quality, but again I'm afraid of touching it. So I'm asking for recommendations on that. What would you do?










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BID = 1018653

stego

Schreibmaschine

Beiträge: 2454

 

  

Hi Perepandel,

I don't have very much know-how with Philips machines, but the only thing I remember: The pinch rollers must get replaced nearly every time! This rubber rollers are really sensitive for the tape transport, and in picture-search mode (and also in normal mode) they can damage the tape!

The corrosion on the video head drum is very heavy! In this case, I would try to clean the video head drum carefully with Acetone. Wonder why the drum has got such a corrosion, because it is made of aluminium, as far as I know.

And last not least: The RIFA-capacitors are well-known for experiences like this! Be sure to replace them with type X or Y capacitors (at least in Germany), because only these types of capacitors are made for nonstop operation on 230 V AC and don't burn in case of failure.

If this machine has been stored in a wet place, I fear, that the piezo-elements on the video heads (for DTF) are destroyed by the moisture. That may be the reason for the picture interference...

Best regards and have a nice weekend!
stego

_________________

Erklärung von Abkürzungen

BID = 1018692

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Hi Stego and thanks for your reply!

Well, the corrosion in the drum you see in the picture was from before I got rid of it after polishing with toothpaste. In "real life" it looked so much heavier; maybe that picture is from halfway the process; I can't remember. Anyway, now it's almost unnoticeable to the naked eye, and don't feel rough to the finger anymore. But I'm afraid like you that the heads themselves had been damaged. Probably it was stored in a wet environment, because there are corrosion symptoms all over the tape lift. And in the metal casing enclosing the circuits. Like rushed fingerprints permanently attached to the surface (?). I didn't ever know that the alluminium could corrode that way, either.

Also I'm not sure about any possible effects on the tape path due to micro deformities made with the abrassion.




While taking the picture you see here, thanks to flash I notice that in the parallel "lanes" accross the drum it looks like white at the bottom. I noticed that before without removing any traces of the toothpaste (I insisted a lot until I was "sure" I removed it completely), but the flash evidenced that maybe there are still some remains! Note how around the head (I avoided letting the paste get near there!) there is no whitish color!). I have a bottle of acetone here, so I'll follow your advice and will try a deeper cleaning of the drum. But I'm not sure of its purpose. Does it have something to do with removing further corrossion? Or it's simply a "heavier" surface cleaning method than isopropyl alcohol?

I bet I must be very careful in case I end using acetone, as I remember ruining the plastic covering from a printer some years ago while trying to clean it with it...

Also I still have an spray of "electronic circuit cleaner" that always has done its work very well. Do you think it could deserve a try also?

I noted you ommited expliticly any comments on removing the drum cover and cleaning the contacts, as with the bottom "wheel". Do you think it would be safer to avoid such operation for now? Or is nothing to be lost and maybe something to gain?

These are the exact capacitors I bought for replacement, and yes, I looked expresely they where X2 (having to look up again what that meant, prior to buying them - it is placed across the line, not connected to the chassis, so I think I got it right):

http://es.rs-online.com/web/p/conde.....2515/

It doesn't was straightforward at all for me to find the proper replacement, but, as I said, I'm learning to be very patient!

Well, I'm attaching, too, a couple of pictures merely for self-indulgence . The first one is from another replacement I hand-crafted for a missing little piece on the tape lift. It's the 1st one I reproduce with polyester resin and,for a 1st attempt, I'm very proud of the results! The 2nd one is from the "brakes" replacement in place.







As you see, I'm putting a lot of care on this (due to nostalgic reasons)! But I'm not so confident on getting the desired result!

Erklärung von Abkürzungen

BID = 1018694

stego

Schreibmaschine

Beiträge: 2454

Hi Perepandel!

You're right, be careful with the acetone, because most of the plastic materials are very sensitive with acetone contact! The same happened a few years ago by cleaning a Canon Copymouse FC-230. I only wanted to clean the pickup roller of the copy machine and touched the housing of the machine just a little bit - and suddenly the plastic was damaged a bit!

But for cleaning video heads it is very good, don't take too much of the acetone on the cleaning cloth, then it will be ok.

Have you taken a look at the pinch roller? As I see on your photos, this roller is at the end of its life, because the shining mark of the 1/2-inch video tape is clear to see! A replace of the pinch roller will be required!

And also I remember, the electrolyt capacitors made by Philips (most of all in blue, looks like a blue wrap around them) are well-known for failures of all kinds, first of all the small types have lost their capacity.

A restoration of Philips V-2000 machines perhaps will be a very heavy work. Because of this, I prefer to repair the Grundig V-2000.

Best regards and have a nice weekend!
stego

_________________

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BID = 1018695

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Yeah, I forgot to mention about the pinch roller!

To be true, I'm not able to notice its degradation with my naked eye; on don't have enough training on that. So any help on getting a replacement, if it existed, would be great! I remember 4 or 6 years ago I got one rubber replacement from ¿this site parts store? I think I was guided to the right point, probably by you. I have to take a look at there but I remember getting lost very quickly in my recent attempts to navigate the store.

Appart from getting a new one, I don't see a clear solution for that unconvenience :/. I've always read they are so delicate that a very small deviation in shape would drive to catastrophic results! So small room for hand restoration there - although it seems there is a product for that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATgx4uJcZI

I have to investigate a bit more about such a task.

By the way, I thought Grundig machines wheren't that "serviceable friendly", either! (the truth is that I still haven't got any full success from any machine/brand, but that's probably only due to my own incompetence!)

[ Diese Nachricht wurde geändert von: Perepandel am 29 Apr 2017 13:21 ]

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BID = 1018718

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Ok, I can confirm that, unfortunately, the pinch roller and its companion vertical bar (I don't know the name of this piece) are crumpling the tape as it passes through them

I made a video of it and also you can hear a noticeable crumpling noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12wRQWNrdE

Now the problem is how to get a replacement

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BID = 1018731

stego

Schreibmaschine

Beiträge: 2454

Hi Perepandel,

oh God, the pinch roller is a tape-murder! Not only the noise, also the optical impression shows a really bad pinch roller.

Sometimes, those rollers are offered at ebay. But not this often, like pinch rollers for all kinds of audio tape machines. You have to take a look into ebay sometimes.
I don't have V-2000 spare parts for Philips machines, because my main occupation are the Grundig V-2000 machine. And the pinch rollers in the Grundig tape drives don't fit for the Philips! Oh, one exception: In the years of 1981/82 one Philips V-2000 was a 100-% clone of the Grundig V-2000 2x4 super!

Sorry, I cannot help you with a spare part!

Best regards,
stego

_________________

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BID = 1018740

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Sorry Stego! I forgot to mention because it was very late and I was sooo sleepy, but last night I already found and ordered a replacement! I don't know if it's allowed to post it here but if anyone interested I can tell by private message. Let's wait until it comes and, in the meantime, I'll put my hands in any of my other half-dissassembled machines. I'm keeping the broken pinch roller anyway as a last resort in case the new one fails; I can always try some homemade method to try to restore it with great care...

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BID = 1018788

stego

Schreibmaschine

Beiträge: 2454

No problem, Perepandel!

Good for you that you already have found a replacement! Let's hope, that the picture quality of the V-2000 will be better after replacing the roller.
Keep us informed after doing the replacement!

Best regards,
(today is a working-free day, called "Mayday", at least in Germany )
stego

_________________

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BID = 1018805

Tom-Driver

Inventar



Beiträge: 8792
Wohnort: Berlin-Spandau
Zur Homepage von Tom-Driver


Offtopic :
Stego: der 1.Mai ist in Spanien genauso der Feiertag (Dia del Trabajador, Tag der Arbeit) wie bei uns, guckst Du hier.
AND: Labour Day sounds something better than May Day (but absolutely not: "Mayday"!)


@Perepandel: It's allowed (and highly welcome) to drop a link in your thread to the eBay shop where you ordered the pinch roller.
Maybe it can help someone else to found such rare spare parts or at least any shop that offers those little treasures ...!

continuar, por favor...!

muchos saludos,
TOM.

_________________
[x] <= Hier Nagel einschlagen für neuen Monitor!


[ Diese Nachricht wurde geändert von: Tom-Driver am  1 Mai 2017 17:14 ]

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BID = 1018847

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Ok, it was very late and I was so sleepy that it's possible I did some mistake. In fact, I've tried to reproduce the search but cannot get the exact results.

This is the link to the product I bought:

http://www.signalsuk.com/Shop/Video......html

The strange thing is that two days ago the price was two pounds cheaper (4.97). I can still see that price in my receipt and there also this link which collect some items from different places and still shows "my" price:

http://pricepi.com/search.pi?prev_q.....74267

The final amount in my receipt was 8,79 €, includding shipping.

What I did was a simple search for "vr 2220 pinch roller". The 1st result was for a Portuguese store that had it "temporarily out of stock":

https://mauser.pt/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=48642

As it showed is as an equivalent for another machine, I started searching for it. I think I found the measurements somewhere and after finding it referenced in enough sites (?), I measured my broken one with a regular one with a regular roler and it seemed (to me) to coincide with those dimensions (will, I don't have enough good sight to notice +/+0.5 mm).

As it could be a totally fail, I recommend anyone interested to wait until it arrives (?) and tell you my experience...


Offtopic :

About Labour Day / International Worker's Day: I didn't quite got whatever you said at all, but yeah, today it's been day "Labour Day" here, and I thought it was a kind of global "celebration". But after looking at the Wikipedia, it seems it's not quite as global (in the USA they celebrate on September in order to avoid people relating it to communism/woroker's moevement - go figure...). I'm amazed that there's not a link to the German version of the article... And definitely, yeah, "mayday" does sounds more like an SOS message...

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BID = 1018848

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

(Double post)

[ Diese Nachricht wurde geändert von: Perepandel am  1 Mai 2017 23:16 ]

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BID = 1018852

Trumbaschl

Inventar



Beiträge: 7558
Wohnort: Wien

Actually the drum in my VR2023 looks quite a bit worse than that! It has white spots all over and feels fairly rough but I'm certain someone here told me not to worry about that. The machine is playing fine but I'm still a bit worried about damaging tapes. Probably it also needs a new pinch roller, as does my VR2334. The latter one was such a beast to open and reassemble that I'm reluctant to do that though. The top cover just kept interfering with the tape lift cover, incredibly annoying!

The Grundig front loaders have their own quirks (my pet peeve is that they're gaping open when there's no tape inside) but they do have their advantages over the Philips machines. OTOH replacing head drums is supposed to be child's play in a Philips and requires all sorts of adjustments in a Grundig.

_________________
"Und dann kommen's zu ana Tür da steht oben "Eintritt verboten!" und da miaßn's eine!"

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BID = 1018856

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Hi Trumbaschl! Well, at least we can interchange some feedback about the effects of "corroded" drums. If you are concerned about the effects it could have on tapes, well, polishing seemed to work for me to remove it, but as I don't have a good image (neither a non-destructive pinch roller), we cannot know about the possible adverse effects of polishing a drum. I will post feedback as soon as I get any progress. But my bet is, too, that if it works, you better don't touch it. In my case, it felt so rough that I was almost certain that it would had damaged my precious tapes like a sanding paper.

About dissassembling: I don't find this as difficult to accomplish as soon as you have the service manual and follow the instructions. I've already ruined one of those machines while trying to do it about 15 years ago without any manual, so I know what I'm talking about! And also now I'm having to manually type the Dutch text into Google Translate, so it couldn't be that difficult, lol!

And, finally, I "successfully" (it worked for quite a time until, again, I ruined it) replaced heads in a couple of Grundig/Interfunk machines without any further adjustments, neither oscilloscope nor adjustmeny tape, just following Stego's indications, and it seemed to "work", with the faults not seeming related to the heads.

[ Diese Nachricht wurde geändert von: Perepandel am  2 Mai 2017  1:33 ]

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BID = 1019006

Perepandel

Gelegenheitsposter



Beiträge: 82
Wohnort: Miramar (Platja)
Zur Homepage von Perepandel

Guys, I've found a Dutch forum with lots of dedication to Philips V2000 machines (again, I don't know if its ok to post the address), and the only user that has answered my 1st post (by the way, not related to V2000 at all) happens to have a site with lots of tips for servicing this machine. Lots of points which cover whatever case I could ever suspect of! The ones stated in this thread are covered there. Go figure: including the drum corrosion one! And I never heard of this before! He explicitly says that you must avoid playing tapes on those machines as they would act as sanding paper, damaging them. And that you may polish them, with great care and avoiding touching the heads, with ¿metal? polisher.

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